Discussion:
[PVE-User] DHCP for non cloudinit VM
José Manuel Giner
2018-08-20 07:36:10 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

there any plan to implement DHCP for non cloudinit VMs?

Thanks!
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Dominik Csapak
2018-08-20 09:14:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by José Manuel Giner
Hello,
there any plan to implement DHCP for non cloudinit VMs?
Thanks!
the question does not really make sense as we did not implement dhcp for
cloudinit, the config there only tells the vm how to configure its
network (same as with containers, were we also don't implement a dhcp
server)

but where is the problem in having a host/vm in your network serving
dhcp?
José Manuel Giner
2018-08-20 11:43:14 UTC
Permalink
The possibility of being able to define IPs directly from the
Proxmox/API interface. Just like with Cloud-init or containers.
Post by Dominik Csapak
Post by José Manuel Giner
Hello,
there any plan to implement DHCP for non cloudinit VMs?
Thanks!
the question does not really make sense as we did not implement dhcp for
cloudinit, the config there only tells the vm how to configure its
network (same as with containers, were we also don't implement a dhcp
server)
but where is the problem in having a host/vm in your network serving
dhcp?
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Ian Coetzee
2018-08-20 13:21:50 UTC
Permalink
Hi José,

Using the Qemu Agent you are able to determine the IP of the VM.

Kind regards
Post by José Manuel Giner
The possibility of being able to define IPs directly from the
Proxmox/API interface. Just like with Cloud-init or containers.
Post by Dominik Csapak
Post by José Manuel Giner
Hello,
there any plan to implement DHCP for non cloudinit VMs?
Thanks!
the question does not really make sense as we did not implement dhcp for
cloudinit, the config there only tells the vm how to configure its
network (same as with containers, were we also don't implement a dhcp
server)
but where is the problem in having a host/vm in your network serving
dhcp?
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José Manuel Giner
2018-08-20 13:25:04 UTC
Permalink
I mean, when you install the ISO of an operating system on a VM, when
configuring the network, that the user can choose the DHCP option
instead of defining the values by hand.
Post by Ian Coetzee
Hi José,
Using the Qemu Agent you are able to determine the IP of the VM.
Kind regards
Post by José Manuel Giner
The possibility of being able to define IPs directly from the
Proxmox/API interface. Just like with Cloud-init or containers.
Post by Dominik Csapak
Post by José Manuel Giner
Hello,
there any plan to implement DHCP for non cloudinit VMs?
Thanks!
the question does not really make sense as we did not implement dhcp for
cloudinit, the config there only tells the vm how to configure its
network (same as with containers, were we also don't implement a dhcp
server)
but where is the problem in having a host/vm in your network serving
dhcp?
_______________________________________________
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José Manuel Giner
http://ginernet.com
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Dominik Csapak
2018-08-20 14:28:04 UTC
Permalink
but that cannot happen without an agent/cloud init like program in the
vm, so what and why (if we have cloud-init) should we implement there?
Post by José Manuel Giner
I mean, when you install the ISO of an operating system on a VM, when
configuring the network, that the user can choose the DHCP option
instead of defining the values by hand.
Post by Ian Coetzee
Hi José,
Using the Qemu Agent you are able to determine the IP of the VM.
Kind regards
Post by José Manuel Giner
The possibility of being able to define IPs directly from the
Proxmox/API interface. Just like with Cloud-init or containers.
Post by Dominik Csapak
Post by José Manuel Giner
Hello,
there any plan to implement DHCP for non cloudinit VMs?
Thanks!
the question does not really make sense as we did not implement dhcp for
cloudinit, the config there only tells the vm how to configure its
network (same as with containers, were we also don't implement a dhcp
server)
but where is the problem in having a host/vm in your network serving
dhcp?
_______________________________________________
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https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user
--
José Manuel Giner
http://ginernet.com
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José Manuel Giner
2018-08-20 14:35:24 UTC
Permalink
I thought cloud-init was connecting against a DHCP server.

Does Proxmox have any plan to provide a DHCP service so that VMs can
receive IP auto-configuration, whether they use cloud-init or not?
Post by Dominik Csapak
but that cannot happen without an agent/cloud init like program in the
vm, so what and why (if we have cloud-init) should we implement there?
Post by José Manuel Giner
I mean, when you install the ISO of an operating system on a VM, when
configuring the network, that the user can choose the DHCP option
instead of defining the values by hand.
Post by Ian Coetzee
Hi José,
Using the Qemu Agent you are able to determine the IP of the VM.
Kind regards
Post by José Manuel Giner
The possibility of being able to define IPs directly from the
Proxmox/API interface. Just like with Cloud-init or containers.
Post by Dominik Csapak
Post by José Manuel Giner
Hello,
there any plan to implement DHCP for non cloudinit VMs?
Thanks!
the question does not really make sense as we did not implement dhcp for
cloudinit, the config there only tells the vm how to configure its
network (same as with containers, were we also don't implement a dhcp
server)
but where is the problem in having a host/vm in your network serving
dhcp?
_______________________________________________
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https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user
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José Manuel Giner
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Mark Adams
2018-08-20 23:21:46 UTC
Permalink
Just install your own DHCP server on proxmox if you want. I don't see this
as a feature many people would want, as in any "normal" network you always
have a dhcp server already?
Post by José Manuel Giner
I thought cloud-init was connecting against a DHCP server.
Does Proxmox have any plan to provide a DHCP service so that VMs can
receive IP auto-configuration, whether they use cloud-init or not?
Post by Dominik Csapak
but that cannot happen without an agent/cloud init like program in the
vm, so what and why (if we have cloud-init) should we implement there?
Post by José Manuel Giner
I mean, when you install the ISO of an operating system on a VM, when
configuring the network, that the user can choose the DHCP option instead
of defining the values by hand.
Post by Ian Coetzee
Hi José,
Using the Qemu Agent you are able to determine the IP of the VM.
Kind regards
The possibility of being able to define IPs directly from the
Post by José Manuel Giner
Proxmox/API interface. Just like with Cloud-init or containers.
Post by Dominik Csapak
Post by José Manuel Giner
Hello,
there any plan to implement DHCP for non cloudinit VMs?
Thanks!
the question does not really make sense as we did not implement dhcp for
cloudinit, the config there only tells the vm how to configure its
network (same as with containers, were we also don't implement a dhcp
server)
but where is the problem in having a host/vm in your network serving
dhcp?
_______________________________________________
pve-user mailing list
https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user
--
José Manuel Giner
http://ginernet.com
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José Manuel Giner
2018-08-21 06:18:14 UTC
Permalink
It's not that simple when IP allocation depends on the VM MAC addres, if
you have a few VMs it may not be a problem, but hosting companies that
handle thousands of VMs do not want to assign any random IP to a VPS and
would be better to have a native integration, at least at the API level.
Post by Mark Adams
Just install your own DHCP server on proxmox if you want. I don't see this
as a feature many people would want, as in any "normal" network you always
have a dhcp server already?
Post by José Manuel Giner
I thought cloud-init was connecting against a DHCP server.
Does Proxmox have any plan to provide a DHCP service so that VMs can
receive IP auto-configuration, whether they use cloud-init or not?
Post by Dominik Csapak
but that cannot happen without an agent/cloud init like program in the
vm, so what and why (if we have cloud-init) should we implement there?
Post by José Manuel Giner
I mean, when you install the ISO of an operating system on a VM, when
configuring the network, that the user can choose the DHCP option instead
of defining the values by hand.
Post by Ian Coetzee
Hi José,
Using the Qemu Agent you are able to determine the IP of the VM.
Kind regards
The possibility of being able to define IPs directly from the
Post by José Manuel Giner
Proxmox/API interface. Just like with Cloud-init or containers.
Post by Dominik Csapak
Post by José Manuel Giner
Hello,
there any plan to implement DHCP for non cloudinit VMs?
Thanks!
the question does not really make sense as we did not implement dhcp for
cloudinit, the config there only tells the vm how to configure its
network (same as with containers, were we also don't implement a dhcp
server)
but where is the problem in having a host/vm in your network serving
dhcp?
_______________________________________________
pve-user mailing list
https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user
--
José Manuel Giner
http://ginernet.com
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Michael Rasmussen
2018-08-21 06:27:32 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 08:18:14 +0200
It's not that simple when IP allocation depends on the VM MAC addres, if you have a few VMs it may not be a problem, but hosting companies that handle thousands of VMs do not want to assign any random IP to a VPS and would be better to have a native integration, at least at the API level.
The MAC address is configurable for a VM to match a IP <-> MAC relation
with fixed addresses.
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José Manuel Giner
2018-08-21 06:51:31 UTC
Permalink
I know that already :) and it doesn't change anything because the
management difficulty still exists.

Everything would be simpler with native integration.
Post by Michael Rasmussen
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 08:18:14 +0200
It's not that simple when IP allocation depends on the VM MAC addres, if you have a few VMs it may not be a problem, but hosting companies that handle thousands of VMs do not want to assign any random IP to a VPS and would be better to have a native integration, at least at the API level.
The MAC address is configurable for a VM to match a IP <-> MAC relation
with fixed addresses.
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Mark Schouten
2018-08-21 07:40:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by José Manuel Giner
I know that already :) and it doesn't change anything because the
management difficulty still exists.
Everything would be simpler with native integration.
I disagree. As would many people. But, nothing stops you from writing
your own qemu-guest-agent script to configure the IP address on the VM,
I think.
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José Manuel Giner
2018-08-21 07:48:25 UTC
Permalink
We are talking about auto-configuring the network on the VM, and
therefore you cannot install the qemu-guest-agent on the VM if you do
not have a network yet.
Post by Mark Schouten
Post by José Manuel Giner
I know that already :) and it doesn't change anything because the
management difficulty still exists.
Everything would be simpler with native integration.
I disagree. As would many people. But, nothing stops you from writing
your own qemu-guest-agent script to configure the IP address on the VM,
I think.
--
José Manuel Giner
http://ginernet.com
Mark Schouten
2018-08-21 07:54:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by José Manuel Giner
We are talking about auto-configuring the network on the VM, and
therefore you cannot install the qemu-guest-agent on the VM if you do
not have a network yet.
I deploy using templates, with packages required already installed om
them. So this would not be an issue for me, personally.
--
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T: 0318 200208 | ***@tuxis.nl
José Manuel Giner
2018-08-21 07:58:46 UTC
Permalink
I mentioned at the beginning of the conversation that this is about
installing ISO images.
Post by Mark Schouten
Post by José Manuel Giner
We are talking about auto-configuring the network on the VM, and
therefore you cannot install the qemu-guest-agent on the VM if you do
not have a network yet.
I deploy using templates, with packages required already installed om
them. So this would not be an issue for me, personally.
--
José Manuel Giner
http://ginernet.com
Mark Adams
2018-08-21 08:08:08 UTC
Permalink
What sort of OS are you using for VM's, that does not default to having
DHCP enabled? I personally can't think of one that isn't DHCP out of the
box.

As for using specific IP's based on MAC address, this would be easily set
in the dhcp server config?
We are talking about auto-configuring the network on the VM, and therefore
you cannot install the qemu-guest-agent on the VM if you do not have a
network yet.
Post by Mark Schouten
Post by José Manuel Giner
I know that already :) and it doesn't change anything because the
management difficulty still exists.
Everything would be simpler with native integration.
I disagree. As would many people. But, nothing stops you from writing
your own qemu-guest-agent script to configure the IP address on the VM,
I think.
--
José Manuel Giner
http://ginernet.com
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José Manuel Giner
2018-08-21 08:35:19 UTC
Permalink
What I ask is that Proxmox offer us a native DHCP server integration, so
that we can configure VMs as easily as in cloud-init based VMs or
containers.

What we want is to avoid fighting with alternative solutions:

https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/dhcp-server-proxmox-and-ovh.43420/

https://www.docs.modulesgarden.com/Proxmox_VPS_For_WHMCS#Automatic_IP_Address_Assignment


If we Google, we find that this request has been made many times:

https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/dhcp-server.5892/

https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/proxmox-ve4-3-dhcp-setup-for-kvm-vms.30574/

and more...
Post by Mark Adams
What sort of OS are you using for VM's, that does not default to having
DHCP enabled? I personally can't think of one that isn't DHCP out of the
box.
--
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http://ginernet.com
Klaus Darilion
2018-08-23 19:20:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by José Manuel Giner
What I ask is that Proxmox offer us a native DHCP server integration,
so that we can configure VMs as easily as in cloud-init based VMs or
containers.
I do not have a solution but I see the point of José.

The thing is about having untrusted VMs where a user can install any OS
and can hack around in the VM as he like (e.g. setting any MAC addresses
on the interfaces). Hence, any agent-based solution does not work. So,
if the VM uses DHCP and the DHCP is integrated into Proxmox/qemu (if
possible) that would be a great feature. Assigning an IP address as any
other VM parameter (disk ...) and then beeing sure that the VM got this
IP address offered by DHCP (and any other IP addresses, MAC addresses
configured in the VM will be refused) would be a very very nice feature.

So why having DHCP integrated into Proxmox instead of adding it outside?
Why is storage replication added to Proxmox instead of doing it manually
with cronjobs? Why is User management integrated inside Proxmox although
could could implement it yourself with some reverse proxy in front of
the GUI?  Because it is very useful.

Honestly, the first time I used Proxmox and provisioned a VM I asked
myself why I can not configure the network settings of the VM.

regards
Klaus

Vinicius Barreto
2018-08-20 22:16:12 UTC
Permalink
Hello please could you tell which command what qemu agent do you use to
configure the IP settings of the VM?

Thank you!
Post by Ian Coetzee
Hi José,
Using the Qemu Agent you are able to determine the IP of the VM.
Kind regards
Post by José Manuel Giner
The possibility of being able to define IPs directly from the
Proxmox/API interface. Just like with Cloud-init or containers.
Post by Dominik Csapak
Post by José Manuel Giner
Hello,
there any plan to implement DHCP for non cloudinit VMs?
Thanks!
the question does not really make sense as we did not implement dhcp
for
Post by José Manuel Giner
Post by Dominik Csapak
cloudinit, the config there only tells the vm how to configure its
network (same as with containers, were we also don't implement a dhcp
server)
but where is the problem in having a host/vm in your network serving
dhcp?
_______________________________________________
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Mark Adams
2018-08-20 23:23:38 UTC
Permalink
Maybe lost in translation? He said "determine" not "configure".

That means installing qemu agent in the guest will allow the proxmox
interface to show you what IP it is using.
Post by Vinicius Barreto
Hello please could you tell which command what qemu agent do you use to
configure the IP settings of the VM?
Thank you!
Post by Ian Coetzee
Hi José,
Using the Qemu Agent you are able to determine the IP of the VM.
Kind regards
Post by José Manuel Giner
The possibility of being able to define IPs directly from the
Proxmox/API interface. Just like with Cloud-init or containers.
Post by Dominik Csapak
Post by José Manuel Giner
Hello,
there any plan to implement DHCP for non cloudinit VMs?
Thanks!
the question does not really make sense as we did not implement dhcp
for
Post by José Manuel Giner
Post by Dominik Csapak
cloudinit, the config there only tells the vm how to configure its
network (same as with containers, were we also don't implement a dhcp
server)
but where is the problem in having a host/vm in your network serving
dhcp?
_______________________________________________
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